Jim Tushinski

Nappy:  Every now and then, there comes a film that really messes me up.  In a good way.  Richard Attenborough’s “Chaplin” did it. “Wilde” starring Stephen Fry and Jude Law did it.  It took me weeks to get over “Brokeback Mountain”.  These films had me really tripping.  They were so powerful, I couldn’t shake them.  Your film “That Man:  Peter Berlin” had the same effect on me.  It’s been a week since I sat down and watched it and it still haunts me.  It’s beautiful.  What were you thinking?  How did it come about?

Jim:  That’s wonderful that my doc affected you that way. It’s certainly what I intended. In late 2002, my friend Robert Boulanger (who’s in the doc) told me that Peter Berlin lived in the apartment below his. My memory of Berlin’s image and photographs were vague, though I knew who he was and how famous he had been in the 1970s. I remembered seeing him on the streets in the 1980s when I moved to San Francisco. But I certainly wasn’t a fan nor was I particularly interested in porn or porn stars. However, when Robert started relating the stories Peter had been telling him—about Robert Mapplethorpe, Rudolf Nureyev, Andy Warhol, and about the immense loss of his friends to AIDS—I knew these stories need to be captured somehow. I found it fascinating that Peter had been so famous and then so obscure and I wondered what that was like. 

N:  When did you know that you wanted to be a Director?  I mean, when did you pick up a camera and say, “This is what I want to do?”

J:  I studied filmmaking in college, along with English and writing. But in those days, making films was so expense and I was so broke. I decided that writing fiction was cheaper and allowed me to create whatever I wanted and not worry about budgets or crews or anything. But I’ve always been in love with film and filmmaking. I’m always watching movies and documentaries, which is the best way to learn how to make them. Just like reading a lot of novels is the best way to learn how to write them. A few years ago, I was trying to get a novel published with no luck and got disgusted. I started poking around and learning digital video and suddenly it was possible to make videos cheaply and with almost no crew. So I created a little short film called “Jan-Michael Vincent Is My Muse” using crude animation and pirated video clips and it was quite popular on the gay and lesbian film festival circuit. That Man: Peter Berlin came along as the next project. In between those two videos, my novel, Van Allen’s Ecstasy, got published by Harrington Park Press. 

N:  What’s your favorite film?.  I’m just ga-ga for “Gone With The Wind”.  It just sends me.  I love it because it’s so lush.  And that poor silly fool Scarlet.  I still want to slap her.

J:  I have so many favorites it’s tough to name a few. But near the top of my list would have to be Nashville, Citizen Kane, Badlands, Grey Gardens, Chinatown, and Ali: Fear Eats the Soul. I have really broad tastes and love artsy stuff as much as B-movies. I even love so-called “bad” movies like Ed Woods films. One can never see Glen or Glenda too many times. Anything with Hayley Mills gets my attention—The Moonspinners, The Trouble with Angels, In Search of the Castaways…don’t get me started!

N:  So, tell me what is Peter Berlin like?  I remember the first time I saw him on screen.  There was this great Male Adult Theater here back in the day, and I would go every Friday and sit and watch old school Porn with Al Parker and others and just sit there and get lost.  And one night they played “That Boy” and I fell in love with Peter then.  I mean, I couldn’t stop staring at him.  What is he like?

J:  I think the Peter you see in the documentary is very much the real Peter. He’s very funny, loyal, opinionated, almost child-like sometimes. He can be frustrating and infuriating one day and a sweetheart the next. He just doesn’t care what anyone thinks and has formed an opinion about everything that no amount of facts or argument can sway. He’s vain yet shy. He’s completely uninterested in art, film, music, theater, books, and finds very little besides sex that appeals to him. He’s been through a lot of tough times and that weighs on him a bit, but whenever we talk on the phone, he always makes me laugh. But he is definitely not “Peter Berlin” the icon. I’ve never actually met that “Peter Berlin.”

N:  And he’s still alive.  That’s remarkable.  One of the things that touched me about your film is when Peter says that foreplay lasts forever and how once one opens their mouth, it’s over.  He was an exhibitionist and got off on the fact that people wanted him.  He would stand in a doorway and let them look at him.  The physical thing, or so it seems, never interested him.  That’s so deep.  I think that may have kept him alive all these years.  So, so many have died.  Peter cries so tenderly when he talks about AIDS.

J:  On the contrary, he was very much interested in the physical, though the mental part of sexuality was just as compelling. Peter’s views of what is sexy and what turns him on still perplex me. I don’t pretend to understand it. It is deep or shallow? Has his narcissism made sex as most people conceive of it impossible for him? Is that a good thing? Peter thinks it is. He gets no pleasure from kissing, which to me is incomprehensible. We’ve had some heated conversations about his disdain for what most people find alluring and sexy. And don’t get him started on tops and bottoms. He finds the whole thing ridiculous.

N:  You know I got to get all up in your business.  So, tell me, a big old, fine, talented man like yourself, are you single, hooked up or what?

J:  I’ve been with my partner Ray for 15 years. We’re a boring old married couple with a dog and two cats.

N:  What’s your favorite city and why?  I adore San Francisco, but I’m love Tucson, Arizona too.  Don’t ask me why.  I love the Desert.

J:  I love visiting Paris, London, and Amsterdam. I lived in San Francisco for almost 20 years and really love that town, though going back now is fairly strange because it’s so different from when I moved there as a starving student. Chicago is my favorite big US city (I grew up in the suburbs) and I have a love/hate relationship with LA—love visiting it but could never live there.

N:  Would you call Peter Berlin a Porn Star?  Because, I wouldn’t.  He just is.  He’s like Sylvester.  There aren’t words to describe the two of them.  I do know there’ll never be others like them.

J:  I agree. I think of Peter as primarily a photographer and model. A very, very underrated photographer. Maybe “Sex Icon” is a better, more all-inclusive term for him.

N:  Your documentary has gotten all kinds of kudos.  How does that make you feel?

J:  We had some very good reviews when we opened theatrically in New York, which was astounding. I fully expected we’d be slaughtered by the critics. After all, here was a cheap little video documentary made by some California first timer about some old forgotten gay porn guy. But New York went wild for Peter. I’d say that 50% of the reviews we’ve gotten have been good and 50% bad. Peter either fascinates people or they are deeply offended that anyone would waste his time making a film about Peter.  It’s been very strange. I would say that most “film critics” really didn’t have a clue about the documentary, dismissing it as a nostalgia trip for old gay men. Audiences are much more perceptive and that’s really been the wonderful part about this experience—hearing audience comments and feedback. And especially hearing from younger audience members discovering Peter for the first time.

N:  Has it changed you in anyway? 

J:  Nope. There’s no money involved (at least not yet) and I’m not famous and no one is calling me to give me money for a new project, so my life is pretty much as before. I think I’ve learned a lot about the film and video distribution racket, which has been a bit depressing. No distributor was interested in That Man: Peter Berlin. We were told repeatedly that it was “too niche” to ever play theatrically. Mainstream distributors wouldn’t touch it because it was too gay to make money. Gay distributors sort of turned up their noses at it initially, even after we premiered at the prestigious Berlin International Film Festival.  It was perplexing. I remember one acquisitions guy for a major gay distributor repeatedly calling me “stupid” on the phone because I wanted the doc to play theatrically at least once. Then I realized that distributors really don’t know anything about what audiences will respond to. So I guess I have changed in that I learned to trust my instincts. I knew this doc would resonant with audiences even when all the “experts” told me I was a fool to think so.

N:  I was talking to my old friend, Floyd, the other day and we got to talking about how people are wired sexually.  Do you think that a “Peter Berlin” could get people off today?  Things have changed.  People have changed.  Do you think that some people can still get off on what they think they’re going to get?

J:  I don’t think there could be a Peter Berlin today because Peter just did what he wanted and never thought about fame or money or anything except getting people off. Today everyone wants to be famous, even so-called “underground” artists. And now, you can get anything you want sexually on the Internet, so there’s not the sense of mystery and furtiveness there was in the 1970s. And that was a big part of Peter’s allure. Someone called Peter the Paris Hilton of the 1970s but I think that’s so inaccurate. Peter was never famous for being famous. He just was.

N:  When you’re not making films that the whole world is talking about, what do you do? 

J:  I write fiction. I run a small business selling Peter’s films on DVD and his images on CD-ROM as well as run his Web site (www.peter-berlin.com). I used to work in high tech, so I still do some freelance technical writing. I lead a life that most would consider boring. I never go out to bars anymore and don’t even drink, except on rare occasions. I maintain a lot of Web sites to promote myself and my works. (www.jimtushinski.com for starters). I watch a lot of movies on DVD and cable.

N:  What sign are you?

J:  Leo.

N:  I’m just getting over a Tom Waits thing.  What type of music do you listen to?  I’m a lyrics kinda guy.  What about you?

J:  Very eclectic. I have a huge classical and modern music collection. Lately, the most played artists on my Ipod are Rufus Wainwright, Imperial Teen, Erasure, Green Day, Kate Bush, Radiohead, Sufjan Stevens, The New Pornographers, and Wilco. I’m ga-ga for Shostakovich. 

N:  Who’s next?  Gonna do another Documentary?  What’s next for you?

J:  I have an anthology of creative nonfiction by queer writers coming out from Harrington Park Press early next year. I co-edited it with Jim Van Buskirk and it’s called Identity Envy: Wanting to Be Who We’re Not (www.identityenvy.com). I’m working on a book about obscure filmmaker Tom Graeff, who made one low budget Hollywood film in the 1950s, Teenagers from Outer Space, which starred his boyfriend. Graeff is a bit of a mystery, but I’ve become quite the detective and am now officially obsessed with him. He committed suicide in 1970. The more I find out, the more mysterious the story becomes. I’ve tracked down a number of the cast members from Teenagers and discovered that everything written about Graeff (and there’s not much) is wrong. And a number of people who knew him (including his brother) won’t talk to me, which just gets me more interested. I’d love to do a documentary or fictionalized film about him, but there’s no money for that, so I’m focusing on writing instead of filmmaking again. I’m working on a short film script and a new novel as well and pitching another non-fiction anthology to publishers right now. I’m also getting Peter’s film Nights in Black Leather ready for its August DVD release date. We recently found the negative in storage in LA and have remastered it for DVD. Peter just donated the negative to the Legacy project, a GLBT film preservation joint venture by Outfest and the UCLA Film Archives. I also found four never released short films of Peter’s among the many cans of 16mm film he has. Those will be on the DVD as well.

N:  Thank you so much for sending me the DVD and giving me the opportunity to share in it.  I loved it.  I have to say that it really messed me up. I love the ending of the film.  The guy sees Peter standing in a doorway and he slowly walks away.  But, he can’t stop looking back.  I love that scene.  I can watch it over an over again.  It says so much.  No matter what, you can’t stop looking back at Peter Berlin.  In my book they called that “thang” magic.  Thanks so much.